The dirty right
Here’s The Economist:
IN EUROPEAN politics a useful distinction is sometimes drawn between the “clean right”, a group which can include pretty flinty conservatives, and the “dirty right”, meaning those who cross the bounds of democratic decency, whether with race-baiting, threats of political violence or snarling challenges to the rule of law. That distinction has proved powerful in its day. In the French presidential elections of 2002, the main parties of left and right united behind an unprincipled machine politician, Jacques Chirac, to defeat his opponent, Jean-Marie Le Pen, a brutish demagogue. Parisians fondly remember the posters that popped up, urging: “Vote for the crook, not the fascist”.
Donald Trump, front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, is of the dirty right. He showed that when he called for a blanket ban on Muslims entering America, and advocated both the use of torture and the punitive killing of terrorists’ families, a war crime. He whips up crowds by lamenting that he cannot punch protesters in the face. He accuses the Mexican government of sending rapists to America, and promises to round up and deport 11m migrants who are in the country without papers (though, like Caesar weighing lives in the Coliseum, as president he would let “good ones” back in). In a television interview on February 28th he declined three times to disavow statements of support from a veteran leader of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), murmuring that he needed to “research” that white-supremacist group. Bringing history full-circle, the ageing Mr Le Pen sent word from France that, if American, he would vote Trump.
. . .
Pandering as contempt
There is one more explanation for all the bigwigs and pundits rationalising Trump-support, while considering themselves good people who deplore racism. Mr Trump’s critics, they contend, show snobbish contempt for the tycoon’s voters—notably older, often less-educated whites who feel left behind by wrenching social and economic changes. One congressman backing Mr Trump, Tom Marino of Pennsylvania, uses a term much in vogue just now, calling Trump voters “the unprotected”. It comforts Trump-endorsers to think they are standing up for underdogs, but they are letting themselves off too easily. Other Republicans seeking the presidency endlessly promise to protect anxious Americans, with everything from air strikes on Islamic State to curbs on work visas. Mr Trump stands out for the savagery with which he vows to frighten, punish and hurt those who he says are doing America down. That’s not protection, but vengeance.
Conservative grandees preparing to back Mr Trump are arguably the worst snobs of all. For they know that he is making promises to his supporters that are both nasty and impossible to keep. Like every tribune of the dirty right, Mr Trump thinks his voters are dupes: that is why he panders and lies to them without a qualm. If Republican bigwigs have shame or sense enough, there is still time—just—to disown him.
This story from The Economist has lessons for America:
RAMZAN KADYROV has few inhibitions. Last week, just before the first anniversary of the murder of Boris Nemtsov, a liberal Russian opposition leader, by a member of Mr Kadyrov’s security services, the Chechen strongman posted a video on his Instagram page. It depicted Mikhail Kasyanov, a former prime minister, in the crosshairs of a sniper rifle. “Kasyanov is in Strasbourg to get money for the opposition,” Mr Kadyrov commented under the video, in a clear warning to opposition politicians. “Whoever still doesn’t get it, will.” . . .
Rank-and-file security officers resent Mr Kadyrov, seeing him as one of the rebels they fought during the first Chechen war. But Mr Kadyrov enjoys protection from Mr Putin, who responded to his protégé’s latest provocations by calling him an effective worker. The Kremlin awarded Mr Kadyrov a medal the day after Nemtsov’s murder, and he continues to receive ample funding from Moscow. Last year, while overall budget transfers to Russia’s regions declined by 3%, funding for Chechnya rose by 8%. Mr Putin has ordered his cabinet to transfer ownership of a large oil and gas company in Chechnya from federal control to that of Mr Kadyrov’s government.
Ever since the Soviet collapse, Chechnya has divided Russian society. Ironically, in the early 1990s when Mr Kadyrov was fighting against Moscow, Russian liberals—including Nemtsov—campaigned against Russia’s Chechen war. Nemtsov collected a million signatures in support of stopping it. Conversely, the rabid nationalists who once cheered Russia’s brutal campaign against the Chechens now see Mr Kadyrov as their hero in a battle against liberals and Westernisers.
Mr Kadyrov has turned Chechnya into a caricature of Russian authoritarianism, with his own personality cult and system of extortion, torture and killings to keep the population in line. As Alexander Baunov of the Moscow Carnegie Centre argues, Mr Kadyrov appeals to Russians who consider the current regime too soft. They see in Chechnya a model for Russia’s future. Mr Kadyrov’s impunity brings that one step closer.
I predict that if Trump takes over the GOP, the party will switch from being anti-Russian to pro-Russian, for exactly the same reason that the Russian right went from being anti-Chechen to pro-Chechen. The dirty right is on the rise in Russia and Eastern Europe, and to a lesser extent in Japan, China, Turkey and India. It will be interesting to see if America jumps on board. It’s a moment of truth for the GOP.
PS. From Matt Yglesias:
I was a liberal Donald Trump apologist. Not a liberal enjoying the chaos Trump was sowing in the Republican Party, but someone who welcomed his ideological heterodoxy as a step away from the cliff of endless polarization that offered a more moderate substantive agenda than Marco Rubio’s. I held on to that conviction through Friday’s protest violence and Saturday’s torrent of “enough is enough” takes.
I was wrong. Sunday morning, in the context of what he knew to be a growing controversy about violent behavior on the part of his supporters, Trump tweeted what can really only be interpreted as a threat to send goons to beat up Bernie Sanders supporters.
Update (from Jim Geraghty):
ADDENDA: Jonathan Chait cheered Trump’s rise a month ago, believing it would expose the dark side of the Republican party. Now he’s realizing just what he’s been cheering for:
My previous view of Trump was as a kind of vaccine. The Republican Party relies on the covert mobilization of racial resentment and nationalism. Trump, as I saw it, was bringing into the open that which had been intentionally submerged. It seemed like a containable dose of disease, too small to take over its host, but large enough to set off a counter-reaction of healthy blood cells. But the outbreak of violence this weekend suggests the disease may be spreading far wider than I believed, and infecting healthy elements of the body politic.
I remain convinced that Trump cannot win the presidency. But what I failed to account for was the possibility that his authoritarian style could degrade American politics even in defeat. There is a whiff in the air of the notion that the election will be settled in the streets — a poisonous idea that is unsafe in even the smallest doses.
Tags:
14. March 2016 at 06:05
YOu would be better off talking about the Filthy Left, who want to destroy our civilization, that the “right”, who are really just anyone outside the Left, who wish to save it.
14. March 2016 at 06:24
Well, at least this was not another Hitler=Trump comparison…
Trump’s hypocrisy and militarism tower above Mt. Everest, and nearly rivals that of Rubio, Cruz or Kasich.
14. March 2016 at 06:43
Ben, You said:
“Well, at least this was not another Hitler=Trump comparison…”
Actually, I’ve never done one.
14. March 2016 at 06:58
advocated […] the punitive killing of terrorists’ families
I see literally zero problems with that.
You know how the Western world got pacified ? The violent males were killed.
Repeat that for enough generations and you get a bunch of wimps who think importing millions of inbred Arabs is a good thing.
14. March 2016 at 07:06
“Instead I’d like to compare him (Trump) to Mr. Hitler, just another nationalist politician participating in democratic elections in Germany during the early 1930s. This Hitler was a politician that (according to the NYT at the time) would certainly moderate his positions as he got closer to power, in the opinion of most experts. But (you are thinking) this comparison is absurd, because that politician was contemptuous of democractic principles, like freedom of the press….”–Scott Sumner.
Okay, you did not compare Trump to Hitler. You compared him to Mr. Hitler.
14. March 2016 at 07:19
Wait, I thought Trump showed moderation by cancelling his Chicago rally in the face of violence? But Sumner thinks Trump was in the wrong?
Shorter Sumner: ‘Do you want me to free Barabbas or Jesus (Matthew 27:17)’? Sumner: of course Barabbas, since though a murderer, he supports NGDPLT.
There, I’ve done it: compared Trump to Jesus Christ. E. Harding would be pleased, though an atheist.
NEWS STORY: CHICAGO (WLS) –Two of the four people arrested during protests following the cancellation of Donald Trump’s rally in Chicago appeared in Cook County bond court on Sunday. A judge set bail at $50,000 for both Sergio Giraldo, 23, and Sohaan Goss, 21. Both posted 10 percent of that amount Sunday afternoon and were released on bond. They are scheduled to be back in court on March 18. Protesters gathered outside the courthouse in support of the men.
14. March 2016 at 07:45
You mean the Davos twits at The Economist are willing to compose editorials attacking the character of their rivals and opponents? Who’d a thunk it?
14. March 2016 at 07:49
Actually, I’ve never done one.
I take it that for Scott Sumner, the past is another country.
14. March 2016 at 07:55
YOu would be better off talking about the Filthy Left, who want to destroy our civilization,
The wreckage of American jurisprudence, the extirpation of local discretion over anything more august than sewer fees, the legal harassment of ordinary merchants and landlords going about their business, the metastasis of political patronage in higher education and the civil service, the exploitation of the military as a toy theatre for proponents of socio-cultural silliness, the grotesque deformation of family law, the chronic deficit of order in inner cities, &c. are the sort of things which are of no interest to faculty libertarians and irritate only those vulgarians who should be spat upon and ignored. See the sublime musings of Mr. Kevin D. Williamson for a concise formulation.
14. March 2016 at 07:55
Scott,
+1. Don’t really know what else to add, I agree with your line of thought on Trump. Just posting this comment to support you, so you have something else in your comments section than the sad, repetitive effusions by your relentless hecklers.
A dark thought. Now that political correctness (haha) is gone, everywhere, not just in Trumpistania, the tone of the internet has reverted to pre-nazi 1930’s discourse. Anyone now feels good about smearing races, countries, dissenting opinions, to no end. It is so repugnant that I sort of start missing PC. It was covering up a lot of things that really should remain hidden.
14. March 2016 at 08:11
“I predict that if Trump takes over the GOP, the party will switch from being anti-Russian to pro-Russian, for exactly the same reason that the Russian right went from being anti-Chechen to pro-Chechen.”
-Not pro-Chechen, pro-Kadyrov. Only Westerners would ever think of liking Chechens. And Russia is not a subject-state of the U.S., unlike Chechna. And what’s wrong with a more Russia-friendly GOP?
“Putting a leader who would condone violence against the supporters of his political opponents”
-Dude, a Berniebro just tried to attack Trump. Why doesn’t Bernie condemn this behavior? And if he does, just like leftists, the establishment, and you with Trump and the KKK, I will still say Bernie doesn’t condemn this behavior no matter how often he does.
“He showed that when he called for a blanket ban on Muslims entering America, and advocated both the use of torture and the punitive killing of terrorists’ families, a war crime.”
-If Dick Cheney advocated for all these, he’d still be considered clean right (although the first might be considered as signaling he wants to tighten immigration, which would place Cheney squarely on the dirty right).
“Mr Trump stands out for the savagery with which he vows to frighten, punish and hurt those who he says are doing America down.”
-Rubio, Kasich, and Cruz do not exist to these people, apparently, and neither does their proposed savagery.
BTW, there’s two owl.Bentley links in the post.
Sumner seems to have a strange tendency to criticize Trump for things the establishment does 100% of the time.
“The dirty right is on the rise in Russia and Eastern Europe, and to a lesser extent in Japan, China, Turkey and India”
-Turkey created the Islamic State and openly supports AQ. India’s PM promotes ancient pseudo-history. Abe acts as though Japan was the real victim of WWII. China and Turkey are notorious for political violence. Meanwhile, the vestiges of the “dirty right” that exist in Russia are repressed ever harder.
“I remain convinced that Trump cannot win the presidency.”
-He already decisively won Virginia in the primaries. Ohio and FL are tomorrow. I think Trump will win both. If he does, he has a strong path to the presidency via those three states in the general. Let’s hope Trump anonymously contributes to the Green Party.
And what’s wrong with promoting violence against saboteurs?
14. March 2016 at 08:14
Ben, I think you missed the point on that one, read it again. My point is that Hitler wasn’t “Hitler” when he first ran for office. I could have said the exact same thing about FDR.
mbka, Yes, reasonable courtesy >> Campus PC >>>>> no PC at all.
In the comment threads we see the right wing thugs who don’t want any PC at all.
14. March 2016 at 08:14
“Anyone now feels good about smearing races, countries, dissenting opinions,”
-White, the First World, micro-aggressions.
14. March 2016 at 08:37
harumph, Daniel, +1. Not just the West, but Japan, as well (which had a very strict death penalty).
Ray is wrong, again. Look at Jesus. Look at Trump. Who’s clearly superior? Not Jesus. Could Jesus save the Roman Empire from marauders? Trump will.
“In the comment threads we see the right wing thugs who don’t want any PC at all.”
-You talking about me?
14. March 2016 at 08:38
I think Trump is an ass, but Yglesias needs to take a deep breath and a chill pill. Trump can’t unleash legions of goons because he doesn’t have any. In fact, his campaign is notable for how successful it has been with very little infrastructure.
People who’ve actually worked with him don’t think Trump is racist. And those of you who think he’s really opposed to immigration should ask yourselves why he is married to an immigrant.
Rubio is right. What Trump really is is a con man. I have no idea what he’d do as President and I doubt he does either. Most likely it will be whatever seems most expedient at the time, i.e., whatever gets him the best press. And that’s why he will be a disaster, because the press is way over on the left.
14. March 2016 at 08:44
In the comment threads we see the right wing thugs who don’t want any PC at all.
My quinquagenarian arthritic self? Stealing Bryan Caplan’s glasses and inhaler and giving him the locker-stuffing he’s earned and deserves sounds like fun, but that’s a part of the past which really is another country for me at this point.
14. March 2016 at 08:46
If you think about the rise of “The Dirty Right” and “Dirty Left” maybe we should think thankful it took this long and at this point is still a minority. (HRC is getting more votes than Sanders and I don’t see Trump, like Perot or Ron Paul does not have a replacement.)
1) Most of the bottom 70% of the income scale are worse off than 15 years ago. When else in US history has this been true? (Late 1930s?) While you can applaud lower poverty in China and India, it has taken its toll on a lot of the Western world. It does appear the social contract is broken between the capitalist and workers. (I suspect this will be a source of debate with foreign policy.)
2) There is still resentment the large banks were bailed out for versus everyday citizens.
The rise of Trump does show the libertarians have a hard time controlling society without shared religion or values. My guess outside of Eastern Europe it will be contained to the minorities at the ballot box and comments on the internet.
14. March 2016 at 08:52
Scott–I got your point. It is still a comparison. I think anyone is justified in raising concerns about Trump, and you are correct to do so.
But the mild-mannered Kasich has explicitly called for large increases in military outlays. Rubio and Cruz speak of restoring American Primacy and “rebuilding” the military. Hillary Clinton has been part of a team that has occupied Afghanistan for eight years, after George Bush occupied it for eight years.
Trump said, very clearly and publicly, that occupying Iraq was a huge mistake and cost $5 trillion dollars, money better spent on US infrastructure. He said that at a GOP debate, right in the lion’s den. That does not strike me as HitlerIian or even Mr. Hitlerian.
Side note: the US spent decades propping up right-wing, crony capitalist, Catholic governments all through Latin America. Putin is a right-wing, crony capitalist, Catholic oppressive state—but I think our foreign policy military establishment is in need of enemies, so Putin is an enemy.
Actually, Bernie Sanders may be the best of the lot. An old-fashioned, Brooklyn socialist is hardly the worst of fates.
14. March 2016 at 08:52
“Most of the bottom 70% of the income scale are worse off than 15 years ago.”
-Real median household income is lower, but real wages are higher and RGDP/capita is higher.
Only Sanders is against bank bailouts.
“And that’s why he will be a disaster, because the press is way over on the left.”
-But he’ll be elected with the help of the right.
14. March 2016 at 08:56
“Putin is a right-wing, crony capitalist, Catholic oppressive state”
-Catholic? Russia’s very Orthodox!
All the GOP candidates speak of rebuilding the military, but Trump says he supports lowering military costs via competitive bidding.
14. March 2016 at 09:42
As a liberal Democrat, I have to totally disagree with Yglesais. If you don’t actively want Trump-Hillary there’s something wrong. You got to be in it to win it not to avoid the worst case scenario.
This has been my dream matchup since late July.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/03/no-its-still-fun-being-trump-democrat.html
14. March 2016 at 09:43
Yglesias’ risk aversion is way too high. Yet it’s possible Trump could win but I’ll take the odds any day of the week and twice on Sundays
14. March 2016 at 09:54
Side note: the US spent decades propping up right-wing, crony capitalist, Catholic governments all through Latin America.
We did nothing of the kind. Caudillo regimes, establishment patron-client regimes, and later institutional military regimes were the default state in most Latin American countries. They required no ‘propping up’ from the United States government. All of our consequential interventions occurred in the Caribbean basin in and among fairly small Central American and insular states and territories: Puerto Rico, Cuba, Panama, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and El Salvador (and, in the non-Latin Caribbean, Haiti and Grenada). The only loci where we actually ‘propped up’ a government were Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, and El Salvador, and we were propping up constitutional politicians for the most part (Stenio Vincent, Jose Maria Moncada, and Jose Napoleon Duarte, to name 3).
14. March 2016 at 09:55
Addendum, we ‘propped up’ another set of elected officials (Guillermo Endara et al) in Panama during the period running from 1989 to 199?.
14. March 2016 at 10:18
“In a television interview on February 28th he declined three times to disavow statements of support from a veteran leader of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), murmuring that he needed to “research” that white-supremacist group.”
No, that is a very dishonest way of representing the exchange. Why does the media feel a need to make Trump seem worse than he his? He his bad enough on his own without dishonest portrayls of him from the media.
14. March 2016 at 10:30
Putin is a right-wing, crony capitalist, Catholic oppressive state—but I think our foreign policy military establishment is in need of enemies, so Putin is an enemy.
Putin does not map to the political spectra current in the occident ca. 1967. Even were he Augusto Pinochet assisted by Hernan Buchi, he would not have constructed a Swiss political economy from the ruins of the old command economy in the time allotted. Putin is what you might call ‘culturally Orthodox’. The Orthodox hierarchy can be astonishingly sectarian regarding the Catholic Church (in the Ukraine especially). It’s doubtful that the military establishment are up to anything but doing their jobs. Robert Kagan is not now and has never been a part of the military establishment; same deal for Mitt Romney. (And some friction with Russia is unremarkable and to be expected).
14. March 2016 at 11:09
Collin, You said:
“The rise of Trump does show the libertarians have a hard time controlling society without shared religion or values.”
I wasn’t aware that libertarians were in control of society, or even wanted to be. As far as the bad economy, Trump’s policies would make it even worse.
Ben, You said:
“Trump said, very clearly and publicly, that occupying Iraq was a huge mistake”
Then why did he favor the war? Sure, after it turns out to be a fiasco, anyone can say it was a mistake.
14. March 2016 at 11:28
“Then why did he favor the war?”
-Because he thought the U.S. would get the oil. Cheney had no intent of this happening.
“As far as the bad economy, Trump’s policies would make it even worse.”
-Nah.
14. March 2016 at 11:29
@ssumner
Sure, after it turns out to be a fiasco, anyone can say it was a mistake.
You act like this is common sense amongst the remaining GOP candidates when in fact all the other GOP candidates don’t admit that it was a huge mistake. In this regard Trump is actually huge progress for the GOP. Can’t you even admit that? That’s just sad.
@Arilando
No, that is a very dishonest way of representing the exchange. Why does the media feel a need to make Trump seem worse than he his?
I also don’t know why they feel the need to lie in such a crass manner. But are you really surprised? They do this all the time.
14. March 2016 at 12:01
But the outbreak of violence…
This kind of reporting is just so dishonest by the media. I know this kind of reporting is very common but it’s still outrageous. Let’s see what happened: Supporters of Bernie Sanders and other Trump haters stormed a meeting of Trump supporters with the single purpose to disrupt the event.
This is a very common strategy amongst left-wing extremists and a very typical sign of fascism. Fascist do this all the time, it’s their core strategy. But when left-wing extremists are doing it the media is always calling it “protesting”. And which persons do they portray as the bad guys? The GOP supporters who had nothing more in mind than listening to their candidate.
Just imagine it the other way round: GOP supporters storming and disrupting a Bernie Sanders event. The media would be outraged for the next six months and those GOP supporters would be called fascists (and rightly so) and not “protesters”.
But the truth is I never read of GOP supporters storming or disrupting an event by Democrats. Did this ever happen once in the last 40 years? I don’t think so.
But left-wing fascists that disrupt right-wing events? This happens in every major election in Western democracies world-wide. And the media always calls it “protesting”. And “outbreak of violence” like it was a national disaster and not a malicious attack by fascists.
No wonder more and more people distrust the media nearly completely by now.
This is the real problem. And not some small player like Trump. Trump is a symptom at best. As long as liberals can for example storm and disrupt any event they want to, (and portray it as democratic heroism in the media afterwards), America (and other Western democracies) will become more and more divided and more and more extremist.
14. March 2016 at 16:32
Wow! Leftist thugs threaten mayhem and all the usual suspects rush to blame the threatened.
if there is any difference between the Soros-sponsored bullies and Kadyrov I fail to see it.
14. March 2016 at 21:03
Trump is a Muslim hater like dual Ukraine/Israeli Ihor Kolomoyski. I call him the billionaire bigot. The European Jews don’t want anything to do with his hatred of Muslims. He is a globalist like Trump and Bloomberg. Bloomberg is more left but he has his own agenda, gun control. He may not hate all Muslims, too your face anyway.
14. March 2016 at 21:38
Gary’s off his meds again (on everything).
15. March 2016 at 05:14
E. Harding.
I have to give props to a guy who comes out and says ‘Trump is superior to Jesus.’
Trump did say that the Bible is such a great book, it’s even better than Art of the Deal.
15. March 2016 at 05:18
Somewhere Nietzsche is laughing.
But then it’s amazing how much I’ve laughed through this entire election
15. March 2016 at 07:47
To me it is interesting that Trump and Sanders are so close on proposed policy. You could say the Sanders is less violent but for the fact that he keeps calling for put wall street executives in jail (HRC too).
They are both painting themselves as the saviour of the abused and forgotten blue collar worker.
These may be the results of bad monetary policy.
15. March 2016 at 09:34
Christian, Please provide links to all the candidates saying, today, that, in retrospect, the Iraq War was a good idea.
And does it bother you that Trump lies about the fact that he supported the war?
15. March 2016 at 09:35
Christian, Given that we know he lies about almost everything, why would you even care what he says about Iraq right now.
15. March 2016 at 12:55
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/241818-cruz-of-course-iraq-was-a-mistake
Ted Cruz
GOP rep: Trump ‘a product of rage among the Republican base’
Insider: Trump to skip GOP debate for pro-Israel conference
The Hill’s 12:30 Report
MORE
is breaking from former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) about whether or not he would have ordered the U.S. military into its eight-year war in Iraq.
“Knowing what we know now, of course we wouldn’t go into Iraq,” the Texas Republican told The Hill on Tuesday.
And he support NGDPLT!
15. March 2016 at 14:01
@ssumner
Christian, Please provide links to all the candidates saying, today, that, in retrospect, the Iraq War was a good idea.
Don’t twist your own words like that. You are not trying hard enough to be honest. You talked about “a fiasco” and “a mistake” first, now you suddenly want quotes that it was a “good idea”.
But I never said that. I said: “You act like this is common sense amongst the remaining GOP candidates when in fact all the other GOP candidates don’t admit that it was a huge mistake. In this regard Trump is actually huge progress for the GOP.”
And Trump is huge progress in this case, because he made it very clear in the GOP debates that the Iraq war was a huge mistake.
Now to the quotes you wanted. Trump was in fact (!) very critical of the Iraq war extremely early. As early as at least March 22, 2003 (!) according to factcheck.org. That’s extremely early for a GOP guy.
There you go:
March 22, 2003: The San Antonio Express-News quotes Trump as saying the “war is depressing.”
March 25, 2003: The Washington Post quotes Trump, at a post-Oscars Vanity Fair party, as saying the war is “a mess.”
By 2004, Trump’s opposition to the war is even better documented.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/
Now look at Rubio. The latest thing I found from him were he was critical of the Iraq war was from 2015. But as I read it he clearly says again that the war was not a mistake:
“No, they’re two different questions. It was not a mistake,” Rubio answered.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/may/18/marco-rubio/rubios-statements-iraq-have-shifted-not-flipped/
And here’s Kasich:
Did President Bush make a mistake in invading Iraq?
Kasich: I don’t want to go back and redo that. I mean, it was there, and I don’t want to disparage anybody who served our country. I’m just going to reserve my comment on that.
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/04/does_john_kasich_think_the_ira.html
I was wrong about Cruz though. Around 2015 Cruz said the Iraq war was a mistake. Did he say so in the GOP debates? I don’t know for sure. And I always supported Cruz as you know. It’s just very clear that Trump said it much louder.
And does it bother you that Trump lies about the fact that he supported the war?
He does not lie about it. What you call lying is not lying. You are just very biased. That’s your real problem here and elsewhere.
I agree you could say and find quite some things that make Trump look bad. I would know 2-3 issues I guess. But the Iraq war is not one of them. Don’t attack him where he is strongest. That’s exactly what he wants! You are making rookie mistakes.
You totally focus on the wrong issues, you exaggerate them heavily and you even lie about them (like huge parts of the media) – and I think that’s a really bad idea if you want to defeat Trump because all those lies about him will make him only stronger.
If you want to defeat Trump you need to hit him hard with the truth. Every lie will immunize Trump against even true critique because the supporters will lose more and more trust in the media with every lie from the media and rightly so.
16. March 2016 at 05:25
Count, I see have have one more idiot Trump supporter clogging up my comment section. Check out Floccina’s comment, which refutes you silly comment.
Christian, You said:
“He does not lie about it.”
Oh really? He didn’t support the war?
16. March 2016 at 13:16
The Democratic Party relies on the overt mobilization of racial resentment. All the handwringing on the left over Trump just shows how blind they are to their own toxicity.
16. March 2016 at 15:23
Oh really? He didn’t support the war?
You are twisting my words again. You are really good at that. You should go into a debate vs. Trump. Maybe you could give him a run for his money. But I still said: “He does not lie about it.” Nothing more.
He also did comment on that Stern interview from September 2002. He basically said: “That was probably the first time I was asked. By the time the war started, I was against it. And shortly thereafter, I was really against it. This is well documented.”
And this is basically true as you can read on FactCheck.org. I already gave the link.
No one can prove that he supported the war right before it started. And it’s your obligation to prove it because you call him a liar. The indicators we got show that Trump is most likely saying pretty much the truth in this case.
On day 3 of the war for example it is well documented that he said to San Antonio Express-News that the war is really depressing. It’s hard to believe that he supported the war at day 0 and then at day 3 he thinks it’s depressing. Nothing happened in those 3 days.
On day 7 he says the war is a mess. Again: What changed during this week in Iraq? Except that the US Army cut through Iraq like a hot knife through butter?
And so it goes on and on. There’s no documented comment that really indicates support for the Iraq war from day 3 on. So why should it have been different on day 0?
It’s the obligation of the partisan Trump haters to prove their accusation that Trump is a liar in this case. Thousands of people tried it in this case. And they all failed.